Mar 30 2008
First Post on Politics and Religion
I’ve always heard that there are two things you should never talk about with friends and family: politics and religion. It’s interesting to me, because I grew up and still live in the United States of America, where separation of church (religion) and state (politics) are founding principles.
Okay, fine, so the government is not supposed to tell people what religion they can or cannot practice/observe/join/give their hard-earned money. I like that and I support it whole-heartedly.
What arena does that leave us regarding these two subjects? Friends and family. But there’s that pesky policy of leaving them out of it, so we’re stuck.
For a moment, let’s step back and assume that co-workers are merely acquaintances, not friends. Does that mean that work is the best place to talk about religion and politics? Seems like a risky prospect to me.
So, considering that and following the understood “rule” I stated in the opening paragraph, that leaves an audience of one — yourself.
One option is to engage perfect strangers in political and/or religious discussion. The Internet has become a popular place to do this.
Let’s ask ourselves this: would we rather discuss such important topics — the kind that can have a profound impact on our lives and our after-lives (if you’re so inclined) — with complete strangers who may or may not be portraying themselves accurately, or with people we have known and (I hope) trusted all our lives?
Another possibility is to trust the media and form opinions based on the comments of those accustomed to and interested in staying in the spotlight. This, too, seems risky.
At family events on either side, politics very rarely comes up, and religion not at all. Any partisan comment is left to hang in the air until it eventually dissipates into the ether, like an accidental belch. Besides a 30-second expression of “thanks” before major holiday meals, talk on religion is limited to “are you staying for church on Sunday?”
In my family and my wife’s, there are lots of very smart, respectable people. Overall, they have done an excellent job of providing for and loving their families while living within the system the USA’s founding fathers established more than 230 years ago. They cover a wide range of socioeconomic groups, and their political and religious leanings by no means are identical. Same goes for our friends.
Yet, for some reason, we’re discouraged from using them as a forum for healthy debate on serious issues. What better audience could we possibly find?
Lately, I’ve tried to buck this trend with a more personal approach. I speak to these invaluable resources individually, rather than in a group. I did this all the time in letters to my late grandfather. Perhaps the understood rule means “friends and family in a group.” That, I can get behind. Because nobody wants a heated argument when a forkful of sweet potatoes is in the opponent’s arsenal.
With whom do you talk about politics and/or religion? With whom do you not?
Heavy, man.
Well, you, for one, but about politics. Sometimes. A little. Religion? What’s to talk about? You’re either “fer it or agin it.”
Both subjects have become difficult to discuss with anyone except people who are known to be like-minded. Our country is polarized in a way that makes people on either side (or at either pole) think of those on the other as evil, so, since we do find common ground on other issues, we tend to stick to those issues (the weather, sports, American Idol, Dancing with the Stars…) so that we can still associate socially. That being said, it does seem that families should share more.
Religion I talk to anyone about (except my mother).
Politics, I have to be careful, but with enough tact, I can talk to my best friend about it.
A lot of my friends have had bad experiences with Christians being judgemental toward them and honestly, that just isnt me or how God I was made to be with others. And what kind of witness is that to be unloving or pointing a finger? I think some Christians forget about grace and love when discussing with other BELIEVERS AND NON BELIEVERS. I was judged a lot before I became a Christian and it was extremely painful for me to let that go.
I find with most people when they know that I love and respect them, I can be incredibly honest and forthright and no one is offended. Some of the most spiritually challenging conversations for me have been with non believers and they are some of my best friends. They love me and I love them…no questions. There is a lot of freedom.
As far as politics…that gets a bit more sticky (for me)…only because I feel like some times people may not know why they are voting a certain way and gets extremely defensive because of that. Does that make sense? I try not to debate an issue that I am not pretty educated on….it just makes me look stupid. Some people don’t do that…..so that is hard for me. I can talk to my most of my friends and family even though we are scattered as to out political belief system.
Geesh! Sorry to be so long…great post by the way. I hope my rambling made sense.
OBAMA ‘08 !!!!!
I tend to be pretty good at wading into the mine-infested waters of political and spiritual debate with others…typically. Groups are, as you said, tricky, but one on one, I’ll discuss just about anything and usually keep things on a civil level. Moonshot’s parents are polar opposites from me on most social, political, religious, environmental, etc, etc issues, but I love discussing each of these things with them. Where I tend to get into trouble is when I’m discussing things that aren’t so touchy. I assume no one is going to get insulted over a discussion of current pop music and so don’t tread carefully…end up insulting folks with bold proclamations of “that is crap”, “this is unlistenable schlock!!” and so on.
So long as both partie can approach the discussion with the idea that no one really know the right answer, political and religious debates can be truly inspiring. I have two rules for such conversations.
1) Concede alot of points early. The other person realizes you are acually listening to their points, a rarity, so they let their gaurd down and often start listening to you. Once they realize you aren’t there to judge them or their views, most people realy do enjoy this sort of debate.
2) Be willing to let perceived insults roll off.Since these discussions are so often avoided, many people have forgotten how to have them. Moonshot’s Dad loves to talk politics with me, but will enevitably start making broad and rather insulting pronouncements about folks who hold my opinions. He doesn’t mean to be insulting exactly, so I let it go and avoid the temptation to hurl back similar comments. Direct insult are probably a sign that the discussion needs to wrap up, but I figure there’s really only one way to improve my odds of having conversations in which folks dont’ get insulted…and that’s to not get insulted myself.
So…is this fair warning that you’re going to start getting all political and controversal here on Regular Life? If so…count me in.
I talk with family about politics but listen to them rave about religion until they try to brainwash my children. Then I tell them it is my place to teach my kids about religion, and I will do it when and how I feel best. I talk politics with them, but I usually end up yelling things at my dad like, “What WAR did YOU fight, the War to Liberate Bermuda!?” after he says something ridiculous like “PTSD ain’t real” and “I reckon I have a bigger warrior spirit than you.” So I probably shouldn’t keep letting him bait me into these conversations.
I talk with friends about both. I’m at a point in my life that I feel that my friends need to know exactly who I am. Politics and religion are big topics for me. I have friends from all over the political and religious spectrums, and we have honest, open discussions about our leanings and beliefs. I love having it that way, and am glad that I finally gave my friends a chance.
I also blog about my beliefs. It’s my place to work out exactly what I think, to subject what I think to the thoughts of others and to see if maybe I’m missing something important. I also have blog friends that are far right and left, and some of their positions drive me crazy. At the same time, I love knowing what they think, as a sort of test for my own stances.
The only time I am extremely guarded about discussing politics and religion is here in the military community. For the most part, I am in a very small minority in both my religious and political beliefs in this area, and I am uncomfortable saying things that I really think here. I do not want to cause problems for my husband, and it just seems wildly inappropriate here.
One day I might leave a reasonably sized comment on your blog; however, that day is not today.
See, I knew this would prompt long, thoughtful replies, so I wanted to be the one with the shortest (but still pointed) reply. It wasn’t entirely in jest, either. Were I an American, I think Obama is the only presidential candidate that would WANT to vote FOR, rather than selecting the lesser of weevils as has been the case for the longest time. And I don’t think that’s just me. Still, politics is inextricably enmeshed with the media, and unless you can sit down and have a personal conversation with each of the candidates, free of any sort of media presence (so they don’t feel as big an urge to spin), you’re still rolling the dice.
Religion, though, is my absolute favourite thing to discuss. I second Moksha’s suggestion of conceding points early in order to open pathways to communication. This doesn’t necessarily mean admitting that you are wrong (better if you don’t, actually), but rather creating the environment where both parties are willing to listen. I don’t feel the need to impress upon you what I believe (or question), nor do I want to be made to feel like you’re peddling your convictions on me. But an open and frank discussion can be very liberating and enlightening to a few minds that are willing to accept and chew on new information.
Just don’t get me started on Pope Palpatine’s baptism of a Muslim on Easter Sunday at the Vatican in front of media cameras and a world audience. Because then I’ll really let you know what I think.
Peace on Earth, good will towards men and all that.
My wife falls 100% in the category of people who follow the no discussion rule. So anyone I meet through her [which would be the category you fall in], I zip the lip. But for this post, I’ll make an exception. So somebody said we’re not supposed to talk about two of the most important things that affect our daily lives. And as Mark’s astute logic pointed out, the only way to get another opinion in this system is to become schizophrenic and argue with yourself. On Religion, no one’s really entering a conversation thinking conversion. “You’re not thinking conversion, are you?” So what’s wrong with talking about what happened last week at your house of worship? On politics, not discussing your positions or thoughts on policy only breeds ignorance. If you haven’t heard what your family and friends have heard, then you haven’t heard everything.
I adhere stridently to my self-imposed rule of never discussing politics, religion nor sex with co-workers. Most everyone knows not to “go there” with me so I rarely find myself in a position where I have to defend my beliefs/practices to closed-minded radical types who usually don’t listen anyway. I tend not to favor wasting time and I have plenty of friends and family who are fair-minded and reasonable with whom I can exchange ideas.
Politics bore me generally, religion is pretty personal and sex can be fair game but within boundaries of taste and discretion.
Everybody - Wow. Thanks for such thoughtful, lengthy replies. And, of course, that needed bit of comic relief from Simon in brief first comment.
It’s a tricky line to walk, and I try not to give an opinion any time conversation wanders into unfamiliar territory. I think, like Moksha said (and others, in different words), if you don’t come out swinging the “you’re wrong” stick, or the “that’s what wrong with you people” bat, then you can have a nice game of cricket or baseball with a few home runs, a juicy hot dog, and “Take me out to the ballgame” on that cheesy organ.
Umm… yeah.
So, anyway, I loved this discussion. I doubt I’ll start posting on either topic, but it was great to hear everybody’s take on how you discuss these matters.
Well, since you asked…I’m definitely a minority here in California. I’m conservative. I’m a Christian. I’m also a teacher. Most of those with whom I work are neither. So I tend to keep my mouth shut…until asked. I’m not aggressive in sharing my thoughts, but I’m also not shy when asked my views. I figure as long as they are asking, I’ll share. But I don’t force it down their throats. It’s funny (in a non laughing way) how common it is for people to openly bash Christians and conservatives but go into a rage if someone says something contrary to their views. They preach tolerance and acceptance as long as it’s with what they believe.